Posts by Open mind

Given the right circumstances, virtually every rational, moral person will "lie". The only disagreement I have with the WT policy on "lying" is semantics.

The WT says that it is ALWAYS wrong to lie. Therefore, in order for a JW to not tell the Nazis where the Bibles are hidden, the WT comes up with an unothodox definition of the word "lie". They say that it's not lying to withhold the truth from someone who isn't "entitled" to know the information.

I hate to admit it, but I actually agree with most of the Watchtower's policy on lying. There are only two key differences between my approach and the Watchtower's.

1. The definition of "lie". I think it's best to try to use language accurately to help facilitate good communication. Most people would probably agree with these two dictionary definitions:

*to make an untrue statement with the intent to deceive

*to create a false or misleading impression

So when the JW tells the Nazi Gestapo officers that they don't know where the Bibles and Watchtowers are, most people would call that a lie. It's a morally justifiable lie, but still a lie. But since JWs tend to prefer their world view in black and white, they redefine "lie" so that they can in good conscience say that they didn't lie.

2. What circumstances does it take to make a lie morally justified?

It would be a pretty rare person who would feel morally obligated to tell the Nazis that the Jews are in the attic. Now it's just a big gray slippery slide to where you individually draw the line as to what circumstances would justify lying.

Here's my justification for lying to the elders, should that showdown ever occur. The Watchtower has created a system that violates a basic human need: access to family and/or friends. Therefore, I would have zero moral compunction in telling the Watchtower's company men what they want to hear.

If you feel that you are morally obligated to continue to refuse to answer their "loyalty oath" question, it will very likely result in you eventually getting DFed, IMO.

Just my $.02 for your consideration.

You're the one who has to live with the fallout, not us.

All the best to you and your husband,

om

36

What's so mysterious about "generation" (genea) in Matthew?

by kepler in

thanks to a number of notices about a website titled www.jwfacts.com, i took a quick tour and found some very informative pages and charts about the organization's positions and history.

thanks also to a number of posters for their reminders.

i can't summarize the whole site in a topic, but it did include a history of the interpretation of the phrase "this generation", appearing in matthew 24:34.. "truly i say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.".

Open mind

Excellent thread.

Bookmarking for possible future chats with extended JW family.

om

95

Forum Owner and Member Integrity

by Simon in

some people recently raised concerns about security of the site relating to whether forum members could be watchtower plants trying to obtain information about people.

apparently, this was because a previous forum that was setup was either owned by or later handed over to someone who used it to collect personal information about people which was then used to harrass them.

i don't know all the details, i'm just paraphrasing what i've heard and recognize that it's a concern to some people.. i want to first of all put people's minds at rest: i've been running this site for what will be 13 years next month.

Open mind

Sooooooo.

Dr. Evil and his lover, (Simon and Angharad) have been patiently waiting, filing away terabites of personal JW info, for 13 long years before finally springing the Watchtower's trap!

I KNEW IT!!

Simon, I take back anything nice I've ever said about you!

om

76

Are homosexuals born that way? The March 15 Watchtower seems to say so.

by matt2414 in

15 one brother who was raised in a christian household wrote that for as long as he could remember, he struggled with homosexual tendencies.

he said: i always felt awkward.

it seemed that i didnt fit in anywhere.

Open mind

Hey there matt2414, you make some great points. I could put the "dunce cap" back on and throw back a couple of WT thrusts and parries, but I really don't have the stomach (or time) for it.

Especially since I no longer believe in the Bible or Bible God.

om

24

Who songs that remind me of the jehovahs witnesses

by hoser in

jw
friends

two that come to mind are.

my generation and.

won't get fooled again.

Open mind

Dedicated to some particularly mean-spirited elders:

*************************

MISUNDERSTOOD by Pete Townshend:

Just wanna be misunderstood

Wanna be feared in my neighborhood

Just wanna be a moody man

Say things that nobody can understand

I wanna be obscure and oblique

Inscrutable and vague, so hard to pin down

I wanna leave open mouths when I speak

Want people to cry when I put them down

*************************

om

76

Are homosexuals born that way? The March 15 Watchtower seems to say so.

by matt2414 in

15 one brother who was raised in a christian household wrote that for as long as he could remember, he struggled with homosexual tendencies.

he said: i always felt awkward.

it seemed that i didnt fit in anywhere.

Open mind

First off, lest I be misunderstood like Bella15 was earlier, I'm as gay-friendly as you can get without actually being gay.

*Donning my WT-apologist hat, since they don't seem to last very long around here*

matt2414: "If God is perfect, and his creation of man and all life was "very good," how did homosexuality and all the other so called flaws enter the human race so quickly?"

Because God actively took away Adam & Eve's ability to live forever. He also supposedly "cursed the ground" for good measure, only lifting that curse after the global flood. So, it's not a design flaw, it's a curse of imperfection which was imposed on humans after the original sin.

matt2414: "The idea that we have become more damaged or we've changed because we are 6,000 years away from Adam's perfection is really an admission that we have evolved!"

Humans changed from perfect to imperfect with one Divine fell swoop in the Garden of Eden. The only "Biblical evidence" (pardon me while I hurl

matt2414: "There is no scriptural basis for believing that God created in humans a desire for alcohol or alcohol dependency."

God made booze and sex for humans to enjoy, per the Bible.

"Let her breasts intoxicate you."

"Wine that makes the heart of mortal man rejoice."

Homosexuals and alcoholics, at least in part due to their inherited imperfection, take those basic God-given desires and twist them so that they are no longer acceptable to God.

*Removing WT apologist hat*

om